Irish Type III

I recently paid one of my periodic visits to ySearch, to see what new matches I might find there. And much to my surprise, I found a perfect 37-marker match with someone who had the unlikely last name of Irishtypethree. So I sent a message to the contact person, who even more surprisingly for such a close match, wasn't a Casey, but was Dennis Wright. Dennis was quick to reply and he explained that the entry I matched on ySearch was not an individual, but the modal for a cluster of R1b DNA results based in Ireland with certain common markers. We exchanged a few messages, and after a visit to our Casey Surname Project site here, Dennis found many characteristics of the Type III group among our results chart. After letting Dennis know I was interested in sharing his information on our site, and warning him that I would certainly fail to properly describe it, he was kind enough to provide the following:

An Under-discussed R1b Cluster from Ireland

R1b is the most common haplogroup in Western Europe with especially high incidence in Spain, Portugal, Western France and Ireland. The modal, (or most commonly occurring haplotype), for this R1b of Western Europe is called the Atlantic Modal Haplotype, (AMH). For more information on AMH see:-

http://worldfamilies.net/Super%20Western%20Atlantic%20Modal%20Haplotype.htm

The first 12 markers of AMH in FTDNA format are:-

DYS 393 390 19 391 385a 385b 426 388 439 389-1 392 389-2
13 24 14 11 11 14 12 12 12 13 13 29

Because of the large number of males that fall within this haplogroup, efforts have been made to find clusters that show differences in the Short Tandem Repeat, (STR), of their alleles from the AMH by looking for similar variations in the haplotypes. While this is useful in showing a cluster, a haplogroup is formally differentiated by a Single Nucleotide Transformation, or SNP mutation.

Within R1b there are a series of SNPs that divide this haplogroup and specific deep clade testing is required to identify which SNPs have occurred, (are positive), in a DNA sample. At the current time little is known about the fraction of R1b these subclades define, nor what relationship they have with STR defined clusters, but this is changing

Geneticist Dr John McEwan has a website devoted to the R1b Haplotype, and I recommend spending some time checking it out, especially the "How to" guide explaining the use of the results from his site to help identify the "cluster" or haplogroup that you may belong to. http://www.geocities.com/mcewanjc/

One SNP, M269, defines the R1b1c haplogroup and it has been estimated that perhaps 80% of R1b falls into this grouping. It can, however, be further divided into various "clusters".

Some clusters that have been identified by STR variations include Scots, Frisian, North West Irish and South Irish, denoting the geographical area that is ancestral for present day holders of similar haplotypes. The genotyping companies are now offering SNP testing and results are coming in that are helping to relate the STR groupings to SNP markers. For instance, M222+ appears to be carried by those that are in the NW Irish cluster and is called R1b1c7. As the name suggests, this group has its ancestral home in the far North West counties of Ireland.

Early in 2006, researcher Ken Nordtvedt, found another small grouping where the ancestral geographical area appears to be predominately Irish, but the haplogroup was quite different from NWIrish. The group has been given the name "Irish Type III" and its distinctive markers where it differs from AMH are:

Irish Type III AMH
DYS 439 = 11 12
DYS 459 = 8-9 9-10
DYS 464 = 13-13-15-17 15-15-17-17
DYS 456 = 15 16
DYS 463 = 23 22

Searches have been conducted in the Ysearch and other STR databases, and nearly 80 haplotypes have been found which relate to this new grouping, within a Genetic Distance, GD, of 10 to the modal. A record with the name "Irishtypethree" and ID, NT4BZ, has been set up in Ysearch database, to assist others in searching for similar haplotypes.

Looking at the ancestral geographical area for this grouping, 80% participants state 'Ireland' with the region of Ulster and the counties of Donegal, Clare, Tipperary, Limerick and Kerry nominated. 15% give England and the counties of Devon and Wiltshire, and only 2 1/2 % each give Scotland or Wales.

Only one Irish Type III participant has so far been SNP tested and is R1b1c*, in that no tested markers below M269 proved positive.

Dennis Wright, Ysearch ID, 6PWCD scorpion at netconnect.com.au (replace the 'at' with '@')

M269+, M65-, M126-, M153-, M160-, SRY2627-, M222-

Results are still pending on SNPs M37 and P66 as at 23 May 2006.

Significantly M222 was found to be negative clearly differentiating this group from NW Irish that has been found to be positive on this marker.

No marker has been found yet, to designate Irish III, but markers that still need to be tested for Irish III are:-

S21 which normally shows Frisian or Norwegian origin.

S25 that is apparently associated with 'Null' values at DYS463 but may be a general marker that all R1a and R1b has.

S28 that is associated with 'La Tene' Celtic (an Iron Age people in Switzerland 2000BP)

S50 not associated with any particular grouping yet.

There is discussion that this haplotype may prove to be that of the Dalcassian clans of Clare, Limerick and Tipperary, the seats of the O'Brien, Kennedy, MacNamara, O'Donnell and O'Grady. As time goes on, more will be discovered about Irish Type III grouping, but be happy in the knowledge that the DNA of your ancestors is calling you from the Emerald Isle.